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Obamacare Deconstructed

08 Nov

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38 Comments

Posted by on November 8, 2013 in Health Care

 

38 responses to “Obamacare Deconstructed

  1. kmgtwo

    November 8, 2013 at 6:07 am

    Just a rehash of the same old talking points. I really liked the ominous music throughout the video and this comment from the creator:

    Health care is not a right. It’s a commodity. Food is not a right. It’s a commodity. Shelter is not a right. It’s a commodity.

    In other words, “Fuck you. I got mine.”

     
    • Cluster

      November 8, 2013 at 8:42 am

      In other words, “Fuck you. I got mine.”

      That is an excellent analysis of mine, and other conservatives position on health care. Well done.

       
      • kmgtwo

        November 8, 2013 at 3:23 pm

        Nice to see you finally admit it. Your welcome.

         
    • Conservatism Is Calling

      November 14, 2013 at 12:08 am

      Just calling it what it is. If there were no financial incentives for farmers to cultivate and harvest crops, no financial incentives for medical students to rack up hundreds of thousands in student debt, no financial incentives for homebuilders to construct new homes, then you’d see those “rights” start to crumble pretty quickly.

      Now go back to my video and tell me which of my 19 listed sources are using incorrect information.

       
  2. mitchethekid

    November 8, 2013 at 7:53 am

    What’s worse. “Lying” about certain aspects of health care and then accepting responsibility or “lying” about reasons to go to war and then refusing to? In spite of it being an unmitigated disaster.

     
    • Cluster

      November 8, 2013 at 8:20 am

      Well let’s see. Despite restrictive regulations being installed within the bill in 2010 that the administration had full knowledge of, Obama continued to mislead the country, knowing that had he told the truth all along since 2010, the American people may not have been supportive.

      Bush reported the findings of CIA chief, and Clinton appointee, George Tenet re: WMD in Iraq. Information of which was shared and confirmed by every other civilized country, and repeated by Pres. Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton and Dem. Sen. Jay Rockefeller, among others. After the invasion, it was confirmed that the intel of the CIA was not entirely accurate.

      Only a partisan liberal can say that Bush lied.

       
      • rustybrown2012

        November 8, 2013 at 9:49 am

        Bush lied, people died! Obama lied, people got health insurance! Those things are exactly the same.

         
      • mitchethekid

        November 8, 2013 at 11:02 am

        Not so fast Queeksdraw. The information given to those you mentioned had been modified before dissemination. By every measurable construct the information was false, falsified or manipulated to convince the public that the invasion of Iraq was justified. Remember Joe Wilson? Now, 10 yrs later we know the truth. In fact, just a week or so ago Bush/Cheney admitted that they wanted to “kick somebody’s ass”. Didn’t matter who and since we were looking for a scapegoat for 9/11 and GWB had a hard-on for Saddam, it was an easy leap. I don’t want to rehash the war though.It’s pointless. I was just making a comparison of severity.

         
      • kmgtwo

        November 8, 2013 at 4:39 pm

        Only a partisan liberal can say that Bush lied.

        LOL. There is nothing you won’t say or do for your der [sic] leader.

         
  3. rustybrown2012

    November 8, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Man, that’s hilarious! It’s difficult typing while laughing so hard. At least we know where Cluster gets his information, and it aint pretty. The music is epic; no wonder he thinks the world is coming to an end!

    Seriously, it would take many hours and much bandwidth to unravel all the lies, distortions, and fallacies presented here. An early favorite of mine was the claim of astroturfing with the doctors at that White House presentation. Here’s a clue: it’s commonly understood that the audience at a carefully staged media messaging event to promote your policies may just possibly be sympathetic to your agenda – that’s not astroturfing. It turns out those doctors actually supported Obama? Shocking! You mean to tell me they didn’t all spontaneously decide to don their white smocks? Impeach the charlatan! ROFL!

     
    • Cluster

      November 8, 2013 at 9:56 am

      Uncontrollable laughter is a sign of dementia. Just FYI.

       
    • Conservatism Is Calling

      November 14, 2013 at 1:19 am

      It was clearly intended to convey broad support from the medical community. That’s why he waxed poetic about “red states, blue states, high-cost states, low-cost states,” etc etc. That’s why Doctors for America constantly describes itself as a group “with doctors in all 50 states.” It sounds grandiose, but the reality is that you only need 50 doctors to accomplish that.

      I do love how you challenged my claim of “astroturf” by calling the president’s rose garden ceremony “carefully staged.” Careful staging is what makes it astroturf. Get it?

       
      • rustybrown2012

        November 14, 2013 at 12:38 pm

        Con,

        You’re right, you would only need 50 to accomplish this, but the “realty is” Doctors for America has 16,000 members, so those 50 were representing 16,000 – and that’s just one group selected for this event, not ALL of the doctors and students in America who support the ACA.

        Look, nobody older than 9 with an IQ over 70 thought that those good doctors all coincidentally decided to don their white smocks while heading out from their hotels to this event (I can’t believe I’m having to explain this); it was obviously staged for a nice photo op to reinforce the message – Obama even joked about it by calling attention to the white smocks! So why did you make it out to be something nefarious? What is it about staged media events in and of themselves that you find duplicitous in the 21st century? Where was the lie or even the transgression? A politician carefully crafted his message for presentation and actually used visuals for impact? Say it aint so, Joe!

        And for the record, careful staging is not what makes astroturf. By you definition just about every media production is atroturfing. Wikipedia defines atroturfing as:

        “…the practice of masking the sponsors of a message (e.g. political, advertising, or public relations) to give the appearance of it coming from a disinterested, grassroots participant.”

        The operative word is “masking”. There was no masking here, Obama was clear about who these people were and what group they were representing. One would think you would know the definition of the term before using it for slander and then trying to defend it. But glad I could clear that up for you.

         
      • rustybrown2012

        November 16, 2013 at 9:24 am

        Conservatism is calling…but nobody’s home!

         
  4. watsonthethird

    November 8, 2013 at 11:36 am

    In other words, “Fuck you. I got mine.”

    That is an excellent analysis of mine, and other conservatives position on health care. Well done.

    That is an excellent analysis of conservatism as a whole, at least the way many conservatives want to practice it today.

    Yesterday, Andrew Sullivan wrote a post about health care. In part, he said:

    It’s not the health insurance reform I would have wanted – I’d prefer ending the employer subsidy, mandating no exclusion because of pre-existing conditions and creating a more vibrant individual market, including the option of catastrophic insurance. But the GOP never offered that and are still not offering it.

    I also feel – call me a squish if you want – that baseline health security, while not a right, is an enormous social good, and that social insurance against the random vicissitudes of life in no way compromises free market principles. I also realized when I started a small business that I could not personally employ anyone and not provide insurance, without violating my conscience. The step from that to embracing universal care is obvious.

     
  5. Cluster

    November 8, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    I know Mitch is a fan of Dylan Ratigan and I have liked him in the past as well. Well it seems Dylan isn’t a big fan of Obamacare either having had his insurance cancelled.

    http://o.dailycaller.com/thedailycaller/#!/entry/former-msnbc-host-rants-at-obama-on-twitter-after-health,527d0cdc025312186c810536

     
    • mitchethekid

      November 8, 2013 at 4:46 pm

      I do like Dylan. Very much but the daily caller has as much credibility as Bush’s claim of mushroom clouds, aluminum tubes and WMD’s.

       
  6. Cluster

    November 9, 2013 at 4:23 am

    Well so far, Bush has been brought up, and the messenger has been attacked – but there has yet to be one reasoned rebuttal to the video. I am sure KMG is frantically searching media matters, and other left wing outfits for his talking points though.

     
    • mitchethekid

      November 9, 2013 at 7:23 am

      Talking points? Reasoned rebuttal? We don’t need no stinkin’ reasons! It is what we say it is. haHAha.

       
    • kmgtwo

      November 9, 2013 at 7:33 am

      I am sure KMG is frantically searching media matters, and other left wing outfits for his talking points though.

      That is freakin’ hilarious coming from you.

       
      • Conservatism Is Calling

        November 14, 2013 at 11:43 am

        kmgtwo is just upset because my video has more views than Obamacare has enrollments.

         
      • mitchethekid

        November 14, 2013 at 12:30 pm

        Although I can’t find your video, and true or not, what you said was funny. I like your quick witted, sarcastic and pithy retorts. You’ll fit right in here.
        BTW, that’s a lot of views.

         
      • kmgtwo

        November 14, 2013 at 1:58 pm

        I’m not upset at all. Maybe you’ll get that job at Brietbart you’re pining for.

         
      • Cluster

        November 14, 2013 at 2:53 pm

        I have to say that that someone who constantly links to sites like Think Progress and Media Matters, has little room to criticize Breitbart.

         
      • mitchethekid

        November 14, 2013 at 3:46 pm

        I will challenge you to a duel. I say that Think Progress and Media Matters is far far more accurate and fact based than Breitbart. There is left of center, true but there is no more “far left”, unless you included what’s written in political history books. During the past 30+ yrs, the left has moved more rightward, and the right has become extreme and radicalized. As we all know, there are very few center right or Republican “moderates” as they are mockingly referred to. By the radical right. The good news is that what’s left of the sane part of the party is getting pretty pissed off at these amateurs who sole purpose is to obstruct at every turn, tear down the government and impose their morality and views on social issues on all of us. I understand that you are conservative. I also believe you when you say you are not a Tea Party type and object to many of the things that I (and others on the blog) object to, but Breitbart? People who insist that the Dinar is going to reevaluate any minute now have more believability.

         
      • Cluster

        November 14, 2013 at 4:30 pm

        Explain to me how Obama is further right than Clinton. Keep in mind, I voted for Clinton.

         
      • mitchethekid

        November 14, 2013 at 4:52 pm

        I voted for Clinton as well. And apparently the majority of Americans did as well. So are you saying that Clinton was right of center? Or more “right” than “left”? And let me add this before I address your question. Or rather have someone far more eloquent than me address it:

        1. Barack Obama has won an overwhelming majority in the Electoral College, a daunting majority of the popular vote and a majority of the nation’s states—including most of the country’s largest states and states in every major region of the republic: New England, the mid-Atlantic, the Great Lakes, the South, the Southwest, the Mountain West and the West.
        2. Barack Obama has won more popular votes than any Democratic candidate for president in history—except Barack Obama in 2008.
        3. Barack Obama is the first Democratic president to win more than 50 percent of the popular vote in a re-election run since Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1944.
        4. Barack Obama is the only Democratic candidate for president since FDR to twice win more than 50 percent of the national vote.
        5. Barack Obama has, in both of his presidential runs, won a higher percentage of the national vote than any Democratic nominee since Lyndon Johnson in his 1964 landslide victory.

        Here’s the response
        http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2012/07/30/what-happened-to-the-obamacons/

         
      • Cluster

        November 14, 2013 at 6:12 pm

        But that doesn’t prove at all that Obama is further right than Clinton. That just means that the country, or I should say the coasts and urban areas have moved further left, not to mention that Obama is the first black President which has a hell of a lot to do with it. If you look at a map of counties, even blue states like California have more red counties than blue counties, meaning the populated areas control the state, and I think it’s safe to say that a lot of people in urban areas, are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

         
      • mitchethekid

        November 14, 2013 at 6:23 pm

        Perhaps not, but it does show he’s conservative, but not insane. That’s a pretty snarky thing to say about urban dwellers. But it does explain why the Republicans are so desperate to jerrymander and make it more difficult for certain groups to vote.

         
      • Cluster

        November 14, 2013 at 6:42 pm

        I think someone should have to pass a basic competency test to vote. Name the three branches of government could be a question, and I think we would be all amazed at how many people couldn’t answer that.

         
      • mitchethekid

        November 14, 2013 at 9:32 pm

        The Nina, The Pinta and The Santa Maria.

         
      • Cluster

        November 14, 2013 at 4:38 pm

        And I will also say that JFK was a supply sider, and today would most likely be a republican.

         
      • rustybrown2012

        November 14, 2013 at 6:53 pm

        No politician from the 60’s to the left of Goldwater would be welcome in today’s Republican party. Nixon was the answer to liberalism at the time, and look at his policies – what the fuck would you be saying about the creation of the EPA and OSHA if Obama was the one implementing it? One can only shudder at the overheated rhetoric.

         
      • Cluster

        November 14, 2013 at 6:56 pm

        The EPA is a joke, but there is a place for OSHA. Reagan would be nominated unanimously tomorrow by conservatives and to deny that fact, is too be steeped in stupid liberal talking points.

         
      • Cluster

        November 14, 2013 at 7:07 pm

        I also want to point out just one of the inaccuracies you posted the other day from Think Progress (as I just don’t have the time to address all of them). Think Progress pointed out that Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts led to over 10% unemployment in 1982. What they didn’t point out was that by the fall of 1983, the economy was producing over 1 million jobs A MONTH, and by the summer of 1984, unemployment was 7.4%. The 10% unemployment in 1982 was more of a “lagging indicator” from the horrible economy in the late 1970’s and 1980. You know the term lagging indicator. Democrats have been trying to sell that since 2009.

         
      • rustybrown2012

        November 14, 2013 at 8:53 pm

        “The EPA is a joke, but there is a place for OSHA.”

        The point was that neither one would be kosher with the tea party. Reagan would be tarred and feathered by the tea-baggers.

        As for the rest of it, if you want to point out inaccuracies in my posts while quoting specific economic statistics as you do here and expect me to respond to them, you’re gonna have to provide links to your sources, just as I have done. This is just a personal rule; maybe you can get away with throwing out numbers that will be accepted by other readers. But, let me be frank, I don’t trust you. And I have good reason for that mistrust from past dealings with you. So any future unsourced statistics from you will either be completely ignored by me, or labeled with a hearty “Bullshit”. In that spirit: Bullshit!

         
  7. Cluster

    November 9, 2013 at 4:24 am

     
  8. Cluster

    November 9, 2013 at 5:13 am

    Nor can this can be very good:

    When one steps back from all the frustration, all the confusion, all the failures both in the rollout and the mass behavioral experimentation, and the fact that the math just doesn’t work, the primary stated purpose behind Obamacare was simple: to provide uniform, affordable (the A in ACA) healthcare for all Americans. But especially to those who are currently uninsured. At least such was the utopian, egalitarian vision behind its conception. Which is also why, stripping away the political posturing, the html coding errors, the funding issues, the biggest failing of Obamacare would be if it opened, and none of America’s uninsured came. Sadly, this last nail in Obamacare’s coffin, has just been confirmed with a just released Gallup poll which found that a tiny 18% of uninsured Americans – the primary target population for the exchanges – have so far attempted to even visit an exchange website.

    Additionally, Gallup previously found that less than half of uninsured Americans (44%) who plan to get insurance say they will do so through an exchange, and about one in four say they are more likely to pay a fine instead of getting insurance. “These findings help explain the low percentage of the uninsured who have attempted to access the exchange websites.”

     
 
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