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Bullworth

26 Sep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WEyaDeFXwk

 

 

 

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24 Comments

Posted by on September 26, 2013 in Uncategorized

 

24 responses to “Bullworth

  1. cluster

    September 26, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Allow me to go Bulworth in a very short, concise statement:

    “Every single problem facing this country now is a direct result of misguided, if not mal intended policies derived from an oligarch of elitist federal politicians of both parties over the last 50 years.”

    50 years ago, Democrats started the Great Society and War on Poverty. At that time, those living under the FPL were approximately 12%. Today, those living under the FPL are approximately 15%, despite trillions of dollars being spent.

    In 1986, Congress promised to secure the border in exchange fro granting amnesty to approximately 3 million illegal immigrants. Today, the border is still not secured and we are having the same conversation about 4x the amount of illegal immigrants at a time when wages are low and unemployment is high.

    Today we have a record number of people on food stamps, on welfare, and on disability, and a proposal to slightly reduce the growth of those programs is said to be draconian.

    Tell me how you expect anyone to become a self sufficient, high wage earner when they are not allowed to choose the school they attend, and are told that they have little chance of succeeding without government assistance and the benevolence of federal politicians who care oh so much about them.

    Our current government is a FUCKING joke.

     
    • watsonthethird

      September 26, 2013 at 12:29 pm

      Tell me how you expect anyone to become a self sufficient, high wage earner when they are not allowed to choose the school they attend, and are told that they have little chance of succeeding without government assistance and the benevolence of federal politicians who care oh so much about them.

      By that, are we to take it that you are an abysmal failure, having the unfortunate circumstance of being born about 50 years ago and lived in the age in which no one could be expected to become “a self sufficient, high wage earner”? It must really suck to be you. 🙂

       
      • cluster

        September 26, 2013 at 12:58 pm

        When I was growing, at least in the environment I grew up in, scholastic curriculums were more challenging, schools were not failing, and self sufficiency was instilled in us at a very early age.

         
      • watsonthethird

        September 26, 2013 at 1:32 pm

        Well, okay, I believe you grew up in the sixties and seventies, but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. So the real damaged didn’t start 50 years ago, but more like 30?

        And you told us in the previous thread that your children, who are in the twenties, have also grown up to be self sufficient. The mind boggles that it is possible for anyone–ANYONE!–to become a self sufficient, what with all of the obstacles put before us. Your direct family must be the only ones.

         
      • casper

        September 26, 2013 at 6:11 pm

        cluster
        September 26, 2013 at 12:58 pm

        When I was growing, at least in the environment I grew up in, scholastic curriculums were more challenging, schools were not failing, and self sufficiency was instilled in us at a very early age.

        How do you know that scholastic curriculums were more challenging? We have seventh graders learning Algebra and eight graders learning Geometry. Eighth graders are required to learn the Constitution along with American History up to the Civil War. Sixth graders are required to learn keyboarding, and how to use over a dozen computer programs. They do all that and more.

         
      • Cluster

        September 26, 2013 at 7:04 pm

        Here’s just an example of an 8th civics test from 1960.

        http://www.rense.com/general75/pass.htm

        Granted things have changed in math, science, etc., but civic exams are pretty much black and white and extremely important lessens. How many 8th graders today could pass this exam?

         
      • casper

        September 26, 2013 at 7:36 pm

        Cluster
        September 26, 2013 at 7:04 pm

        “Here’s just an example of an 8th civics test from 1960. . How many 8th graders today could pass this exam?”
        I’d guess that most of our 8th students couldn’t name most of our current cabinet members, but then again, neither could I. Could you? How important is that?
        Other than that, I think most of our kids could pass the test on the parts of the Constitution (our 8th grade teachers really push that).

         
  2. cluster

    September 26, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s – you are correct. The decline of this country has been in stages starting with the ill conceived Great Society in 1968. And that is also when LBJ decided to put SS funds into the general fund, thereby giving politicians more access to our money. As a result, SS is headed towards insolvency, even Clinton warned of that in 1993. The decline in schools in my opinion didn’t start until the late 80’s when political correctness kicked in.

    Yesterday, mersault posted this in response to one of my comments:

    The exchanges will work well in states that actually set them up; in red states where GOPers will do everything they can to make implementation a failure, implementation will go poorly–and those exact same GOPers will blame Obama for it.

    I think it’s important to note that Oregon and now Colorado and Washington DC have announced that they are not ready to open on October 1. Just for the record, those are not red states (or district).

     
  3. mitchethekid

    September 26, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    I attended neighborhood public schools. Although I graduated from one of those private “lesser Ivories” that Cruz refused to study with students of (being the alienating, hypocritical and self promoting Harvard elitist that he is) I also attended one of the most lauded and well respected state university systems in the country. SUNY.
    Although I have no personal experience with the failures of contemporary public education, i.e my own children, if there is anything wrong said system, I place the blame on so called conservatives. No child left behind? Really? Is our children being edumuncated? Teaching for the test isn’t teaching, it’s Pavlovian. And bureaucratic. School boards trying to introduce ID as an “alternative” to empirical science isn’t being objective, it’s an attempt to disguise religious beliefs in an ill-fitting suit. Choosing where your child should go to school? What if you are a minimum wage earner and have no resources? What about the home schooled? Unprepared for college once they get there, if they do at all.
    I’m all for diversity but I also think there is value in commonality and community. Although I grew up in a small town, which accounts for the following statement, I went to school from K – 12 with the same kids. If my parents had made arrangements for me to be separated from them; my neighbors and pals, it would have had a profound effect upon me. I knew some kids whose parents shipped them off to private academies in 9th grade. They were miserable.
    Although one can argue the successes and failures of LBJ’s Great Society, one cannot argue the intent. It was a long view transformed into policy. And that’s how things evolve. Conservatives of today are not conservative. They are narrow minded, reactionary, fanatical radicals. Screaming as loud as they can instead of actually paying attention to how they are received by the public.
    I’m undoubtedly a liberal, which means I’m in almost total agreement with the Eisenhower era Republican party platform. And, dare I say it, some of Goldwater’s ideas. Goldwater. The same guy who collaborated with John Dean to write Conservatives without Conscious.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/books/review/30gillespie.html?_r=0
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatives_without_Conscience

     
    • cluster

      September 26, 2013 at 2:31 pm

      Although one can argue the successes and failures of LBJ’s Great Society, one cannot argue the intent.

      It’s the results that matter though. I would think that after nearly 50 years, we could collectively admit to ourselves that the program isn’t working and maybe we should try something else.

      Choosing where your child should go to school? What if you are a minimum wage earner and have no resources?

      School choice does not necessarily entail higher costs for parents. And, there are waivers for low income folks, but it is a chance for their child to go to a school that is excelling, rather than remaining in a school that is failing. And there are a lot of those folks.

      Also, “teaching for the test” is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, that really should be the information the kids need to retain. I remember, and probably you do to, during our school days when the teacher would stop and say that the information he just covered, “just might be” on the test.

       
      • watsonthethird

        September 26, 2013 at 4:15 pm

        cluster said, “Tell me how you expect anyone to become a self sufficient, high wage earner when they are not allowed to choose the school they attend, and are told that they have little chance of succeeding without government assistance and the benevolence of federal politicians who care oh so much about them.”

        Oh, get off your high horse, cluster. It’s absolutely true that the more money you have, the more choice you have. That applies to health care as well as the schools your children attend. And I would think you would be happy with that because it’s capitalism at work, self-sufficiency, the reward for hard work, etc., etc.

        If you have money, you either move to where there are good public schools or you send your kids to private schools. If you have enough money, you can afford to very best health care in the world. That’s the way it works. You know it and I know it. And it’s still that way with ObamaCare. But most Americans also want a society in which there is a reasonable public education even for the poorest among us, as well as access to reasonable health care. And food if you are so poor that you can’t afford it.

        From things you have said before, I find it hard to believe that you would actually support waivers for low income folks to choose the same schools as rich people. That’s just mooching in conservative speak. Heck, you don’t even want them to get a lousy buck-thirty a day for food.

         
      • Cluster

        September 26, 2013 at 4:40 pm

        Not true at all. I already help pay for their education with my property taxes, and happy to do it. I would be happier however, if they could take part of my tax payer money and put their kid in a better school if they don’t like the one they are in. That’s what a voucher is.

        Secondly, you will see in the next couple of days, that healthcare is going to be more expensive for most Americans, even the low wage earners. So again, liberal “intent” won’t bring about the desired results. On top of that, access to that health care will be more challenging as well. Remember when liberals complained about the poor service at VA hospitals a few years ago? Well that’s government administered health care, and you’re now part of it.

         
      • casper

        September 26, 2013 at 5:44 pm

        I’ve always advocated for workfare instead of welfare. People feel better about themselves when they are working. The problem is what kind of jobs are provided for workfare and who provides them. As for education, our district has allowed school choice within the district for twenty years. My school has done well enough that we have had a waiting list for years. I’m also ok with vouchers as long as any school receiving vouchers has to take ANY kid that wants to go there.

         
      • casper

        September 26, 2013 at 5:57 pm

        BTW, Inner city schools have had problems for decades. watch movies like The Blackboard Jungle or To Sir With Love and you will see many of the same problems faced by today’s schools.

         
  4. Jake Goldblum

    September 26, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    i just have a question for you cluster(by the way i dont think there is proof yet health care is going to increase). How do you defend amazona weird comments which are just rhetoric and nobody sees that both sides speak the same way. Read what she wrote below. When is politics not about a popularity contest. The majority vote for their congressmen or their senator or their president. Laws are created by more than majority. The only time it is not a popularity contest is when the supreme court jumps in which is their right to do because they must interpret what the laws are and not what is popular. Do republicans live in some fantasy world of being martyr. Also it is not a simple thing about scientist saying or voting they are actually doing experiments and looking at data. I think it is lazy writing and so self righteous it is hard to defend. I think the left and the right do it but i dont pretend that majority doesnt matter. That is the definition of elitism and what amazona preaches about the left that we must protect majority from themselves and the majority doesnt matter, what is right matters.. Also at this point the Iraq war has been proven to be a disaster and an unjust war. I am just interested in your response .

    “…clearly an unpopular and erroneous war….”

    Yet another example of the Left believing that government is nothing more than a popularity contest, and that right and wrong depend on “consensus”. When you dig into the Leftist approach to pretty much anything, you will find a resistance to the very concept of right and wrong, and a belief in relativity regarding pretty much everything.

    They believe that science is a matter of votes, that if enough people arrive at a “consensus” this establishes objective scientific fact. And here we see the belief that the correctness, and morality, of an action is dependent on its popularity.

     
    • Cluster

      September 26, 2013 at 5:17 pm

      Well first of all, I am not here to defend anything Amazona says, and it’s kind of weird to think that I do have to defend that which she says. She’s a big girl and very capable of forming her own opinion.

      The Iraq war was not an unjust war, in fact the Congress authorized use of force, and if you consider using chemical weapons to be a serious violation and worth attacking Assad over, then you should know that Saddam killed a hell of a lot more people with chemical weapons than Assad could ever dream of.

      Finally, the ACA was passed on a purely partisan vote, and after several back room deals were cut (think: Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu), not exactly Americas proudest moment.

       
      • mitchethekid

        September 26, 2013 at 5:50 pm

        Jay please. Congress did not authorize the use of force. They abdicated their sworn duty to declare war and gave the responsibility to GWB and Cheney. And the use of chemical weapons occurred yrs before 9/11. What you are saying is a patriotic ruse to justify an invasion of Iraq which turned out to be a miserable failure for the United States. Just like Vietnam. Al Qadea is an element of a radical religious group. Like the Westboro Church, Ruby Ridge, Jim Jones and any other wack outs who have delusions of grandure.
        The mentality is not conservative, it’s insane!

         
      • Cluster

        September 26, 2013 at 6:16 pm

        Yea they did vote to use force:

        http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/107/house/2/votes/455/

        But I don’t disagree with you that the war didn’t go well. I don’t think Bush planned very well at all for what transpired after the invasion. I think completely disbanding the Republican Army was a huge mistake, and I think we spent way too much money.

         
      • watsonthethird

        September 26, 2013 at 8:42 pm

        I don’t think Bush planned very well at all for what transpired after the invasion..

        Of course you’re not responsible for defending the words of Amazona, but we addressed this topic back in the B4V days when I said, “While I felt that George Bush’s complete lack of a plan for occupied Iraq was unconscionable, I never thought it was his intention to have American soldiers killed for years in the aftermath.”

        The B4V conservative response was summed up by Amazona: “It is a Leftist canard that Bush had absolutely no plan for the occupation of Iraq.”

        If he did have a plan, it was about as bad as no plan at all. I’m glad to hear that you have more sense than her!

         
  5. Jake Goldblum

    September 27, 2013 at 6:47 am

    it is not about defending her- it is interesting to me to see where her thinking is going. I am looking at it more like a psychologist or someone who wants to emphasizes with that woman so i can understand completely what the right is talking about. I think she is too much of a martyr. Cluster, you cannot use that excuse about syria. No i do not want to attack syria and be in another war so where do you go from there. I dont think the US should be the world’s policeman. I am just saying the hypocrisy or elitism of which she writes is ridiculous. Maybe under all her talking there are real points she is trying to make. I think the Iraq war was a disaster and i was unhappy with anyone who justified it. To say the majority does not make decisions in this country is ludicrous.. Also- CLuster did you see this great article today about how walmart gave up and moving people more to full time. Them trying to give the middle finger to the president lost them a ton of revenue.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/09/25/wal-mart-returning-to-full-time-workers-obamacare-not-such-a-job-killer-after-all/

    by the way my parent company sells a ton of stuff to walmart and i have horror stories of how walmart treats everyone

     
    • Cluster

      September 27, 2013 at 7:48 am

      I am just saying the hypocrisy or elitism of which she writes is ridiculous.

      Who cares?? One thing I have never understood about liberals is that they are obsessed with other people, mainly conservatives.

      Look if you don’t want the US to be the worlds policeman then so be it, I am not thrilled about the prospect either, but we can’t ignore what’s going on because it does effect us whether you like it or not. And one thing too many people don’t fully grasp about radical islamists, or for that matter, a lot of Islamists, is that they don’t like us. They never have and they never will regardless of what we do. In fact, many of them want to kill us and are trying to achieve that goal daily, so it is in our best interest to pay attention to that.

      Re: Walmart, your anecdotal stories are cute, pointless however. My wife and I have friends that work at Walmart, and they are quite pleased with the company but again that is anecdotal and not worth much. One reason Walmart is ramping up is because of the holidays are looming but their expectations for a robust season is tempered:

      http://www.cnbc.com/id/101054759

      I also don’t remember Walmart ever giving the finger to the President – I think you’re a little too sensitive about such matters, and the drop off in spending isn’t because consumers were offended by some faux response to the president as you asserted, rather it is a function of a really sluggish economy, and that is a direct result of the President.

       
  6. Jake Goldblum

    September 27, 2013 at 8:16 am

    as someone who sells to walmart and knows something about walmart was absolutely giving the middle finger to the president because of obama care. Many republicans were quoting and yelling that companies were cutting back hours because of it. In direct result walmart shelves were having problems with being stocked and the customer service dropped. Read the articles on walmart. Sam Walton was a very conservative guy. I still do not understand what conservatives would prefer. Would they rather have a fair minimum wage or have these people working at walmart and be on food stamps and dependent on the government? It really has turned into one or the other. I am not demonizing walmart or businesses but companies such as apple, walmart, target and microsoft and all of the large global companies do not pay any taxes at all. If they did we would be out of this jam a long time ago. It is worst than the 47% who dont pay taxes. yes i am for large businesses and consider myself a businessman. If congress ever passed an internet tax i would be the first one to picket.

     
    • Cluster

      September 27, 2013 at 8:47 am

      …but companies such as apple, walmart, target and microsoft and all of the large global companies do not pay any taxes at all.

      Well first of all they do pay taxes, but they use every loop hole and angle they can to avoid those taxes, but whose fault is that? It’s our fault by not holding our government accountable. Have you not realized that big government and big business are one in the same? Politicians and lobbyists devise every tax accounting loop hole possible for corporations to take advantage of so they can jump on that chartered jet flight down to the Bahamas, all at our expense. What has Obama ever done to bring in more corporate revenue? Nothing. In fact his good friend Jeffrey Immelt with GE is the worst offender of them all. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world which is a complete joke because no company ever pays that rate, so instead of fixing the tax code, we all complain that they are not paying their fair share.

      When are we going to grow up?

       
  7. Jake Goldblum

    September 27, 2013 at 11:00 am

    I can agree with that there is blurred line between big business and big government. I think fixing the tax code would probably make them pay less in taxes because they would just move all the money to sweden or whatever. I think the target should be on the big corporations such as facebook, google and apple. Are all those Americans who created that business really going to move to Vancouver? While i say that it is kind of ironic because a major manufacturer in philadelphia moved from philly to nj because of cheaper warehouse and subsidies. I dont think it will have a major impact as long as Comcast, Merk and everyone else is still in the city. I think that is where the tax code should be fixed.

     
 
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